Justice Antonin Scalia and Nina Totenberg talk for the Smithsonian

Justice Antonin Scalia/Catholicvote.org

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It pays to be a member of the Smithsonian Associates which hosted the event.

You may disagree with him, but you’ve got to admire his candor and humor.

Live and on stage at George Washington University’s Lisner Auditorium Tuesday night were two obviously old friends in "conversation."

 
It was the same night as the president's State of the Union speech which U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia hasn't attended for about 16 years, he affirmed, and why is that, NPR's Nina Totenberg asked.

“It’s not unique….It has become a very political event [which] is not appropriate for justices” or “for military officers to be there”….and has “turned into a rather silly affair….a childish spectacle, and I don’t think I want to be there to lend dignity to it.” The audience applauded.

Well, said Nina, he goes to inaugurations. What’s the difference?

Hats.  Hats are one difference, and the justice and the NPR celebrity spent 10 minutes talking about the different hats he wears to inaugurations.

Justice Scalia’s obvious pride and joy is the U.S. Constitution.

“They should call it the changing Constitution, the morphing Constitution…. I sometimes call it dead to get a rise out of people….It’s an enduring Constitution….The Constitution means what the people understand it to be when the people ratified it. Why do I have to explain this stuff? It seems like common sense,” he said.

The Supreme Court is "a very noisy court," Nina said, and the justice said:  "I think I started it."

Sometimes Scalia asks questions "because it's so inherently dull and you try to liven things up a bit.  I often ask a question just for the hell of it."

At times audience members got the feeling that the exchange between the two was a well-rehearsed comedy hour,  a re-play of a re-play since they were both quite relaxed and so was the approximately 95 percent Caucasian crowd, about 70 percent of whom were over age 50, and who filled all 1,500 Lisner seats.  There were no security checks.

Nina said she gets asked more often about the Citizens United court decision than anything else and what does the justice have to say about it?

Well, “the sky has not fallen. [The] states have not been taken over by Daddy Warbucks. To get a fair campaign law, we’re going to let the incumbents write the restrictions?” (The crowd laughed heartily.)

The incumbents seek to protect the incumbents, and the political parties throw money at races when results are in doubt. They favor an “incumbent protection bill.”  (In the 5-4 Citizens decision, the Supreme Court held the government could not restrict political spending by corporations and unions.)

Asked about his disappointment with Chief Justice John Roberts' decision to affirm President Obama’s health care act, Justice Scalia said: “Who said that?...I don’t work for him and he doesn’t work for me. You win some; you lose some. That’s life. You just have to be resigned to it….I am disappointed [sometimes], but I stumble on.”

The outcomes of court decisions are not as important as the reasoning which “will affect hundreds of cases,” the justice said.

Yes, it is true:  He has given Justice Elena Kagan hunting instructions.   "I think she likes it [hunting]."

She started out with quail and pheasant, he said, and on a trip to Wyoming, he showed her how to nab antelope and mule deer, but that was a failure since she bagged none, but with one shot (and audience groans) she took out a white tailed doe "which she could have done in my driveway," Justice Scalia said to laughter.

Yes, as a teen, he had a radio show, dispensing advice to teenagers.  No, it was not about love, the justice enlightened Nina, but about manners and dating etiquette.  Mind Your Manners was the name, and the moderator was the late Allen Ludden who was married to the Betty White.

"They’d put us up at the Algonquin Hotel on Saturday nights" before the show on Sunday mornings.  "I liked it a lot."

Was he a wild teenager?

"Let’s just say I was an active teenager.” And adult.

Justice Scalia has nine children and 33 grandchildren, and his wife, Maureen, calls the shots about everything except the Constitution.

Justice Scalia, appointed to the Court by Ronald Reagan in 1986, looks good for 76.  He wore a suit and tie and spoke nonchalantly, without notes, sitting squarely in the chair, often with his hands on his knees.  Nina had done her homework and came with notes.

Photographs were prohibited.

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The National Press Club's Book Fair

It must have been Antonin Scalia and his seven bodyguards.

Or maybe it was the “Triple Crown” (as one of his adoring fans called him) winning wrestler Bret “The Hit Man” Hart, author of, hmmm, “Hitman.”

Whatever! They were big draws at the National Press Club’s annual Book Fair where nonclub members had to fork over $5 to get in and then have the chance to talk with favorite authors and get books signed and have a drink or two.

One author served martinis; some chef authors served up delicacies from their cookbooks. I don’t know if Neil Connolly, the Kennedy family chef and co- author of In the Kennedy Kitchen, had any food to dispense since there was none around his table when I reached him, but he’s grown to even look like the Kennedys which, he said, several people had observed, too. (You know, like in a long marriage you grow to….and you even begin to resemble your dog after a while, or is it vice-versa?) His book was beautifully designed with many color photographs.

The crowd never slowed. Or thinned. A fan of Hitman’s told me he waited a hour in line to get in and drove from West Virginia for the sole purpose of obtaining Hitman’s autograph. The lad was aghast at Metro’s fares.

Most of the wrestler’s fans, I would guess in my stereotypical way, had never attended a book fair. They were mostly in their 20s, male, in the gear you’d expect, and very courteous. “Hitman’s” addition to the Fair was fortuitous!

At times it was difficult to maneuver the floor which made it more fun (and desirable). I only drank beer, a martini (which a mystery writer supplied at her table), red wine (another author supplied) and munched on sweets which waiters brought around occasionally.

I heard Scalia sold out. I didn’t hear one thing positive the whole night from anyone about the man’s decisions on the Supreme Court, so who was buying? The lawyers who plead their cases in his courtroom?

The Press Club’s own centennial book about itself sold a healthy three copies (before I left), but who’s got $39.95 these days for a coffee table book? At least, that’s what I term it.

Roger Mudd looks a lot younger and healthier than you might imagine since he broadcast for CBS about 50 years ago, it seems (actually, it's not far from 50). He has a new book out all about it, The Place to Be.

Helen Thomas was there reigning supreme with cartoonist Chip Bok promoting their new children’s book, The Great White House Breakout.

Russell Baker, now age 83 (!), looked fit and selling David Halberstam’s book(s) for the family, someone told me. Where was Chuck Hagel?

Congresswoman Barbara Lee gave a t-shirt to each buyer of her book, Renegade for Peace and Justice, but being sandwiched between the wrestler’s long line of fans in one direction, and I think it was Scalia’s “fans” in the other, she was, like, holding her head out of water. “My” author (I was a volunteer) told me he felt sorry for her, and I went over and promptly bought her book.

The evening began with a wonderful reception for authors, their guests, and volunteers. I was horrified to hear the volunteer assigned to Helen Thomas wonder who she was.

Funds raised at the fair are designated for the Press Club’s Eric Friedheim National Journalism Library, certainly a worthy endeavor. So much to do! So little time.

A 2013 chat with Justice Antonin Scalia

Justice Antonin Scalia/Wikimedia

Please see my post of Valentine's Day 2013.

At the think tanks: 'Sandra Day O'Connor' was 'First'

I can't wait to read First: Sandra Day O'Connor by Evan Thomas which he and his wife, Oscie, presented last week at the Washington office of the Aspen Institute.

Evan Thomas said he saw Justice O'Connor, 89, about three weeks ago when he visited her at a care facility to give her a copy of his new book about her. "She was not in great shape," he said.

She was the First woman appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and now suffers from early stage Alzheimer-like dementia. Last October she withdrew from public life.

Evan and Oscie Thomas at the Aspen Institute, April 2, 2019, Washington, D.C./Photo by Patricia Leslie

Thomas and Justice O'Connor have the same publisher, Random House, and when he was brought in on her book project a while back, he figured it was to be her ghost writer.  Random had been after O'Connor to write her memoirs, but "I could tell she didn't want to do it," Thomas said.


The O'Connor family enthusiastically welcomed the Thomases as writers/researchers and granted them access to the justice's letters, papers, photographs, and more materials, not all of which the family had read, including 14 letters from a classmate at Stanford University, William Rehnquist.

Justice O'Connor and Justice Rehnquist later served together on the Supreme Court, years after Justice Rehnquist had asked Justice O'Connor to marry him (one of at least four marriage proposals she received while at Stanford).


She strung him along then, waiting to hear the magic words from the one she really loved, who became her husband, John O'Connor. 


(When Justice Rehnquist died in 2005, I wondered why Justice O'Connor cried so hard, shedding more tears in public than one would have expected. Perhaps, she was in love with him.)

Mr. O'Connor also suffered from Alzheimer's and died in 2009, but not before he developed a relationship with "Kay" at a treatment facility where he lived. It was "terribly painful" for Justice O'Connor when he did not recognize his wife and introduced her to Kay whom he identified as his wife.

When he held hands with "the other woman," Justice O'Connor held his other hand.

After Mr. O'Connor was diagnosed in 2000, Justice O'Connor brought him for a time to the Supreme Court where he watched proceedings from a chair.


When she was appointed to the Supreme Court in 1981 and the couple moved to Washington, her husband found transitioning to "Washington law" difficult, said Oscie Thomas. He never succeeded here because his expertise was different from that required in Washington.  

After moving to a second Washington firm, his mental deterioration became evident.  In early 2006 Justice O'Connor retired from the Supreme Court to take care of her husband. 


The authors described their book as "a love story" which, like all love stories, ends tragically.   

In the question and answer session which followed the presentation, a young woman who may have been a student, asked why Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg occupies much more of the public platform than does Justice O'Connor. 

Without realizing the reflexive answer which matched my silent one, Mr. Thomas immediately answered: "Well, she's alive", and he noted that two films were released last year about Justice Ginsberg who cuts quite a public swath in town, out and about like she is.


Justices O'Connor and Ginsburg had a "cordial" relationship, the Thomases said. Justice O'Connor advised Justice Ginsburg about treatments for cancer which they both suffered.

They asked Justice Ginsburg if the rumors were true that she had driven her car twice into Justice O'Connor's car in (presumably) the Supreme Court parking garage.

Throwing her hands up in the air, Justice Ginsburg  confirmed the rumors, adding that she was trying to avoid Justice Antonin Scalia's car. (Thomas said RBG was "the least shy person I've ever met.")

Scalia and O'Connor had a "bad relationship." More than once, the Thomases said that not all the justices like any other. (From their remarks, one can infer that some of the justices "tolerate" each another, more than their public appearances would suggest.)

After Justice Scalia publicly criticized Justice O'Connor, her clerks inserted "zingers" about Justice Scalia in some review materials, all of which Justice O'Connor deleted.

She rarely spoke ill of any of the justices, but, because of his "ideological position,'" she regretted that Samuel Alioto was named as her replacement.

She couldn't stand disharmony and did her level best to discourage it on the court, urging newcomer Justice Clarence Thomas repeatedly to please join the court for lunch when members discussed anything but court matters.

In an interview with the Thomases, Clarence Thomas told them he finally relented, praising Justice O'Connor as the "glue" which held the place together. (Said Evan Thomas: To those of you who don't know him, Clarence Thomas is a very funny man.  (Let's laugh.))


The Thomases interviewed seven justices and 94 clerks, half of were women (why is that important?) among many others. I believe they said they met with Justice O'Connor six times.  The O'Connor family urged all her colleagues, clerks, and others to welcome interviews by the authors. 

To keep up with her Supreme Court tasks,  Justice O'Connor read about 1000 pages daily.

When President Ronald Reagan was presented the opportunity to appoint a justice to the Supreme Court in 1981 and was given the name of a man (somebody Burns?), he said, "'Nope, go find me a woman.'"


Sandra Day O'Connor was confirmed by a vote of 99-0.


She was considered a "swing vote" who cast the deciding ballot in 330 cases and is generally considered the one who ultimately determined Bush v. Gore (5-4), and who, to this day, remains the target of criticism for that vote in the pages of the New York Times.


Evan Thomas said he thinks she cast the vote for Bush because she didn't want to drag out the process for the nation, she didn't like conflict, and "she is a Republican who did not like Al Gore, and maybe, deep inside her heart, that was a factor." 

In 2013 she told the Chicago Tribune that perhaps the Supreme Court should not have taken the case.

When asked about the Kavanaugh hearings, Thomas said: "She would have hated" them "because they were contentious" and she could not bear discord. "I am projecting" here, he said, and "I'm not even sure she saw them."

She liked to cook and entertained her clerks on Saturdays. She made every recipe in a Julia Child cookbook. Her husband was always supportive, and they were quite active on the Washington social scene, often going dancing before they were overtaken by illness. 

Justice O'Connor greatly lamented the termination of a favorite undergraduate class, "Western Civ," which, through her efforts, thrives now as "iCivics." It's taught to middle schoolers, and encourages civil discourse and engagement which, so far, has enrolled about five million students in "her greatest legacy."

patricialesli@gmail.com